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Manwe Todako
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
192
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Posted - 2012.04.05 00:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
The answer is as simple as shortening the title of this thread from "People under something like I don't know 30, shouldn't have slaves" to PEOPLE SHOULDN'T HAVE SLAVES.
SANKOFA |
Manwe Todako
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
192
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Posted - 2012.04.05 12:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
There is no discussion, people. To enslave another human is an abomination to God. God has not nor needs to call any people to enslave another. Slavery is not Godly and those who enslave others are disobeying God. Those who oppose slavery need to stop the soft peddle arguments. Take for instance the whole point of this thread in dividing slave holders into two groups: those who mistreat their slaves and those who don't. The truth? Every slave is mistreated by virtue of being a slave. Slavery is mistreatment.
Those who brutalize their slaves should be immediately punished. Those who do not, should take next step and emancipate their slaves.
SANKOFA |
Manwe Todako
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
192
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 13:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Lyn Farel wrote:Manwe Todako wrote:There is no discussion, people. To enslave another human is an abomination to God. God has not nor needs to call any people to enslave another. Slavery is not Godly and those who enslave others are disobeying God. Those who oppose slavery need to stop the soft peddle arguments. Take for instance the whole point of this thread in dividing slave holders into two groups: those who mistreat their slaves and those who don't. The truth? Every slave is mistreated by virtue of being a slave. Slavery is mistreatment.
I will probably repeat myself, but : even for enslaved criminal prisonners ? If yes, I do not follow your logic.
Are we really doing this again? Are we really trying to equate the criminal prisoner with the slave? Is that an argument to continue slavery? Criminals go to prison in a just society. Would you have it otherwise? Please leave that argument in the grave where it belongs. Every free society has a criminal justice system whereby those who violate the inalienable rights of others are penalized and reformed.
SANKOFA |
Manwe Todako
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
192
|
Posted - 2012.04.05 14:28:00 -
[4] - Quote
Repentence Tyrathlion wrote:
Manwe, I'm not unsympathetic to your cause, but please, find some other justification. And while you're at it, explain to me how destroying Amarrian and Khanid society at its very foundations will be good for anyone - including the slaves. The whole reason I don't believe in mass, immediate emancipation is that I firmly believe that it'll do more harm than good. And no, I don't mean to their souls or any of that crap. No religious conversion attempted by force is worth a damn.
Your criticism is appreciated and presses an important issue. I believe Secular humanism and Religious humanism lead us to the same end point; the dignifying of all human persons. I will leave my own religious justifications at the door from now on and focus on the common humanistic end of freedom for all.
Restitution is a long, long, long process whereby the offending party commits all the time, resources and energy to right the wrong they have committed. The expense of restitution is in proportion to the wrong committed. Slave holding nations have enslaved billions over centuries. Restitution must involve a massive amount of time and expense to right this wrong.
Step One: The Empress et.al. need to declare slavery to be wrong (This will necessarily involve theological reformation)
Step Two: Immediate emancipation of all slaves (This is a declarative act followed by enforcement)
Step Three: Matriculation of those emancipated (This step will take decades to accomplish and will involve the commitment of massive resources, cooperation between the Republic, Empire, State, Kingdom, Federation. Matriculation is the process whereby those freed are brought into society in such a way that they are able to function as self-determined individuals and communities. The injustice of slavery is enormous; restitution must be equally enormous. And yes, the society and culture built on slavery must become a society and culture fundamentally reformed, and the end of this will be good for all. It must cease to be the culture it once was. A universal humanistic end must be embraced via religious humanism and/or secular humanism. Every slave holder must be required to spend the resources and time to see that those they once enslaved are enable to live free. The infrastructures of the combined nations of this cluster are far sufficient to accomplish this task if turned from greed and toward justice.
Is this an unattainable idealism? No. But, it is not easily attainable. Now the beginning has to be the speaking of three simple and direct words. SLAVERY IS WRONG!
SANKOFA |
Manwe Todako
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
192
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 02:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
I find it very sad that so many people of the tribes, once they become capsuleers, feel so threatened when confronted by the truth of slavery. How do they manifest that fear? Usually name-calling. Worse, many capsuleers have grown so fat off of the status quo of continued war and continued slavery, that to give anything other than lip service to abolition is too great a threat
I have watched the discussion on this forum and on the com channels. Pilots seldom are willing to risk significant disagreement with their cherished social circles. Instead, the discussion goes on and on in the same circles and little is done other than a lot of hand wringing. Objection after objection is made as to the impracticality of pressing for abolition. "Oh, we can't free the slaves, some of them might be criminals." On it goes. Those who dare make the status-quo uncomfortable by regularly reminding the community of the evil of slavery are attacked and vilified. Where is the Vherokior, Brutor, Sebiestor, etc capsuleer pilot? If you are not offending someone by your anti-slavery efforts, your efforts are likely too small. Get off your dainty, ecto-plasm soaked butt and do something.
As for Ms. Farel's accusations; they are made in ignorance and fear. Ms. Farel is too afraid to lose her club status with those on both sides of the fence to take any kind of real stand. So what is left for her other than to vilify those who are actually doing something and not just talking. Is your social circle more important that your tribe brothers and sisters still in slavery, Ms. Farel of the Brutor tribe?
As for freeing criminals, you speak out of turn. The Disciples know the difference between the slave and the slaver and the militant and the soldier. Your criticism is false.
SANKOFA |
Manwe Todako
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
192
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 12:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lyn Farel wrote: Slavery abolition may not be my primary and daily occupation, .
Perhaps it should be. What are you presently doing that is more important?
SANKOFA |
Manwe Todako
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
192
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 19:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
Lyn Farel wrote:
Also, thank you for having ignored all my points.
Start making points instead of excuses and you won't be ignored.
SANKOFA |
Manwe Todako
Disciples of Ston
193
|
Posted - 2012.04.09 17:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
Now that this thread has stayed far off topic, let's bring it back.
People under 30 years old should not have slaves.
People presently 30 years old should not have slaves.
People over 30 years old should not have slaves.
SANKOFA |
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